Secunda Secundae
Lecture 4: Faith and Vision: Can the Object of Faith Be Seen?

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the fourth article fourth and fifth kind of go together right the object of faith can be something seen right and then it could be something known through something else right to the fourth one proceeds thus it seems that the object of faith is something seen for the lord himself said to thomas in the gospel saint john because you see me you believe therefore about the same thing is vision and what faith that seems to be a pretty you know it's pretty strong you know voltaire must like that one you know and so yeah yeah yeah you like to quote thomas the objections moreover the apostle says in the first epistle of the corinthians chapter 13 verse 12 we see now through a mirror in a what enigma right kind of a darkened way he speaks there about the knowledge of what faith so videmos right therefore what is believed is seen right put down your pipe and smoke it right for a little bit okay brother mark and i want to lock up a few professors you know and drop the objections in you know see if they can answer them and then the article yeah it's kind of funny the way they put these texts you know they'll put the ants you know big print down there so you know what it is that's like the one i tell you one of our comments here at the beginning of it where they wrote yes no but i think with with these you know computers and so on you can just give them the objections first you know and then and then there's the text until until you you been locked up a while with the objections right moreover faith is a certain spiritual what light huh but by what any light something is seen therefore faith is about things seen see we dummies are really impressed with these arguments are we yeah pretty good arguments huh better than the last one in the last article right moreover any sense is called a sight right huh okay so warren murray and i were trying to uh work with my friend jim there you know and sort of making you know some recordings of mozart you know we try different emotions right that he's imitating right and he listens to the emotion oh yeah now i see this is this is this is yeah this is better yeah you know uh i even i drive in the car sometimes i put in the classical music station you know and there would be uh someone said symphony on something uh see you're not not conducting that well you know and uh wait to see who it is you know and so on and uh but then you listen to that recording i go back and listen to beecham right your brother marcus's beecham taught the other conductors how to conduct mozart he conducts so well and you see ah that's now i see you know how what somebody's supposed to sound like you know but use that seeing don't you right for the other senses but feed is excited too right faith is from hearing okay so if you use sight for all the senses to some extent right okay and faith is excited too then faith is about things sing you know it's kind of yeah interesting what yeah okay are you all tied up you're all tied up you know okay now it's a spiritual work of mercy to and remain to untie but notice they said counter right beautiful said counter but against this is what the apostle says right in the epistle of the hebrews that faith is the what argumentum non operentia okay actually the word argumentum is a little different than the greek huh don't go into that well we get the definition of this will be part of the definition of it faith is the argument of what is not seen the conviction of what is not seen they say so none operentia amount of things that are not seen right so thomas come back to this you know the whole text there when he gets to the definition of faith itself right there must be something wrong with these objections so i always use this text here and it's when i check in the bible you know it's translation i always see how they translate these things okay thomas says i answer it should be said that faith implies the ascent of the understanding right to that which is what believed but the understanding is sensed to something in two ways in one way because to this it is moved by its own what yeah which is either known to itself as is clear in the first beginnings like a whole is what yeah if you know what a whole is you know what a part is it's known to itself right but knowing what a whole and a part is that a whole is more than a part you know what an odd number is you know what an even number is well then it should be obvious to you that no odd number is what even right even right and no even number is odd so those are called beginning statements right the first beginnings kind of interesting there uh joshua's at the house last night there you know doing the uh third book on the soul and uh he's involved in uh his graduate work there at the u and he's got to direct these students in ethics right now it's kind of you know discussions and they kind of write a paper and so on and so on and uh i was saying to him you know you want them to ask him this question huh is anything good or bad by nature it's a good question to ask these students and i think so and i say now what do you think of this if then statement if nothing is good or bad by nature anything goes if you're not quite confident to assert that anything goes then there must be something good or bad by what nature yeah yeah but then how do you you know say now take a position that there is something good or bad by nature or there's nothing good or bad by nature and then defend your position i'm thinking you know huh but a little bit a little bit easier thing right are there some statements that are what naturally known to be true or is every statement in need of proof by other statements well if every statement is in need of proof by other statements could you ever prove any statement yeah because whatever statements you use to prove something so i would say well before you use them to prove that prove them and then whatever you used to try to prove them before you use that to prove them prove them good statements and so um you'd know nothing right but you have job security yeah In which case you can't know the statement, every statement is needed proof by the statements to be true, right? But some people, without thinking about you, they think, you know, that I'm not going to accept any of your statements, Professor Brickless, unless you prove them. And so they think that every statement that you're going to accept, you must have a, what? Proof that means by the statements, right? In which case you have to say that no statement is going to be proven, right? And you can't even know, therefore, that every statement is needed proof, which is what you think, but you don't have any proof of it. So are there some statements that are known without proof? See, because then these would be naturally known, right? Well, you take the example of a whole and a part, right, huh? You see? If you know what a whole and a part is, you need a proof that the whole is more than a part. Or if you know what an odd number is and what an even number is, which most people know, and that know what? Odd. Odd number is a... Yeah. Yeah. If you know what a perfect number is, you know, it's a composite number and not a prime number. It's just obvious to a man who knows these things, huh? So there are some statements that are known, what? Yeah. Yeah. That's a little easier to see, but you're getting open to the guy with the idea that maybe some things are by nature, right? Is anything good or bad by nature? Well, write down what you think is so. And then through it, right? See, I'm talking to you about what he should do, you know? He's got to watch himself. Kind of can't be too dramatic, you know? Yeah, I know. But see, it seems that's a good question to ask them, you know? So, start again at the beginning of the body of the article here. It should be said, right, that faith implies an assent, right, of the understanding to that which is believed, right? But the understanding assents to something in two ways. In one way, because it is moved to this by its own, what, object, right? Which is either known to itself, right? As we say that the, what, whole is more than a part, right? That expression known to itself, it doesn't mean that you use the statement, the whole is more than a part to prove that the statement whole is a part. It doesn't mean that, right? It means it's known not to other statements, right? Or if it's known to itself in some way, it's known to its parts. But not to other statements, right? Just as it's clear in the first beginnings, which we talk about in logic, of which there is, what? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I call it natural understanding, right? As opposed to reasoned out understanding, right? Or it is known through, what, another thing known, as it's clear about conclusions of which there is, what, certain knowledge. Science means certain knowledge. So we have a conclusion that follows necessarily from statements that are already known, right? Ultimately, it goes back to statements that are known to themselves. Otherwise, nothing would be known, right? Now, in another way, the understanding is sensed to something, not because it is sufficiently moved by its own object, but by a certain, what, choice, so that the reason is being moved by the, what, will, rather than by its own object, voluntarily, right? Declining, right, in one part more than another, right? I was also always talking about the two parts of a contradiction. One says it is so, and the other says it is not so, right? Which is it, right? And you're being inclined to one or the other by, what, not by your own object or by a proof, but by a, what, choice, choice, okay? Now, if this comes to be with doubt, right, and with fear of the other part, right, then you have something called an opinion or a guess, right? So who's going to win the World Series this year? Well, I'd have to say I don't know. Now, if I study, you know, somewhat I still don't know, but my guess is, what does that mean? I am inclined, you know, to one side of a contradiction, right? The Red Sox will win, the Red Sox will not win, which is it. I'm inclined, maybe, to one of them, right? But with fear of what? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, my wife watches the baseball game, or the football game, you know, because she gets so nervous, you know, she has to turn it off to someone. I said, Rosie, what did you turn it off for? I said, I look around and find the station fine, you know. They won, 16 to 13, you know. Well, what happened was, I guess there was at the end of the game, the football game now, this one, this one, and there was like two minutes left in the game, and they were behind, you know, like three or four points, you know, so a field goal would not be enough, you know, to even tie it up. And Brady, you know, he threw in succession four, I think passes, you know, huh? And the last one, you know, there was like 20 seconds left in the game, he threw it, and the guy ran me the rest of the 25 yards, and my little thing, you know. It's exciting. Because it's like, you know, when you were nervous, you know, you know, we've done this before, you know. My wife was too nervous to watch. It's a darn thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's a guess, right, huh? My guess is, huh? So, when you guess, you're taking one side of the contradiction, but there's still this fear of the other. But if, however, it is with certitude, right, without such what? Fear. Then it is what? Faith, right, huh? Now, those things are said to be seen, which, through themselves, move our understanding, or our sense, to knowledge of itself, right, huh? Okay? So, when I look at you guys and see you're sitting, right, huh? Then, what? I'm not guessing that you're sitting, right? I know it's your thing. And when I learn what a perfect number is, right, a number equal to the sum of everything that measures it, I know what a composite number is and what a prime number is. I realize it can't be a prime number. Because a prime number is measured only by what? One. One can't add up to any number. So, it must be a composite number, a prime number. I see it from the object, right? Those things are said to be seen, which, through themselves, huh, move our understanding, or our sense, right, in that example I gave, to its knowledge. Whence it is manifest that neither faith nor opinion can be about things seen, either according to the sense or according to the, what, understanding, huh? But, is there some kind of seeing in faith? Let's go to our objections, right, huh? Connect the first objection, right? It seems our Lord says to Thomas, right, huh? Thomas is the doubting Thomas, right, huh? So, unless I see, you know, the marks and the thing in the side where the plants went and so on, we're not to believe. And, of course, when he sees Christ, then, because you see me, Christ says, you believe, right, huh? If it seems that it did. vision, right? The first effort should be said that Thomas sees one thing and believes another. He sees the man, right? And he, believing, confesses that he is what? God. When he says, my Lord and my God. It's not the same thing that he sees and that he believes, right? But seeing the man there, right, with the wounds in his hands and inside, then he has a sign, you know, that helps him to believe that what he sees and what he believes is not the same thing, right? I guess I was taught that somehow I picked this up when I was a little boy, right? When you say the, what's the, yeah, when you say the consecration, yeah. So I still kind of say that many times, I think, you know? I see this, I say, great love in this ethno man till he lay down his life for his friends. Because that does it. You know, I was talking to a young priest and I was saying, you know, I gave a separate consecration of the bread and the wine, right? Well, it's to what represents the separation of the blood and the flesh there and the death of Christ, yeah. That's why I sometimes say there, great love in this ethno man till he lay down his life for his friends, right? Because he never represents that. I think we're kind of tough in a great school, maybe in a Catholic great school, something, you know, to say, my Lord, my God, right? So kind of imitating the Downing Thomas, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You always think of Thomas Aquinas, you know, being named after Thomas, right? My teacher there, a concert there, my undergraduate teacher, there's one of the famous paintings there, you know, for Angelico, you know, where they're all seeing the crucifixion, right? The saints are standing there, you know, and almost all of them, you know, are, you know, you know, crushed with the same thing that Christ is doing. Thomas is there, trying to understand what's going on, you know? They had a stained glass window at one of my grandparents' churches around the temple, a little bit of a rabbit, and there's two unusual looking figures, and one is down the front. These windows are done around the year 1900s. There's one figure down the front, he's all in red, he's got a very prominent nose, and it's Cardinal Newman, and he's listening. And the other one is in the back, and it's a thick and friar, a holy, holy friar, and he's like, there's a look of wonder on his face, you know? Yeah, yeah. Now, second in theory, I'm going to start to see that in some way the man to believe. To the second, it should be said, that those things which are under faith are able to be considered in two ways, right? In one way, in what? Particular, right? And thus, they are not able to be at the same time seen and believed. This has been said, right? Another way, in general, under the common notion of what? Something believable. And thus, they are seen by the one who believes. For he would not believe unless he saw that they were to be believed. So he is seeing in some way, right? Either on account of the evidence of the signs, right? Like in the case of what? Of Thomas there, right? Yeah. Or an account of something of this sort, right? So that one sees that they should be believed. And the virtue of faith is something actually what? Poured into us, right? So we're disposed to see something to be believable, right? And that's why he replies to the third objection that says what? Well, faith is a certain spiritual light, huh? So isn't there some kind of seeing because of it, huh? What else? He says, ad tertium. To the third it should be said that the light of faith makes one see those things which are, what? Believed, right? For just as through other habits of the virtues, right, man sees that that which is, what, suitable to the virtue, or which is according to the habit itself, right, huh? Okay. So also through the habitum fide, right, the mind of man is inclined to ascending to those things which befit, what, right faith in others, right, huh? So one has a certain, what, inclination to the virtue of faith whereby what is proposed to believe is seen to be, what, worthy of being believed, right, huh? Okay. There's a kind of seeing, yeah? It's a little bit like, you know, the way someone who has a moral virtue, right, sees something as appropriate to his, what, virtue, right? Yeah. Yeah. What the matter is the virtue of courage, right, huh? They should, they should go forward, right? He sees that, right, huh? So he doesn't see it in special, but in general, right, he sees some, these things should be believed, right? in accordance with the inclination of this virtue he has received. Now, what about hearing things, right, huh? To the fourth, it should be said that aditus is a word signifying those things which are of faith, but not of those things about which is faith, and therefore it's not necessary that these things themselves be seen, right, huh? He sees that they should be believed, but he doesn't see them in themselves, right? Okay? That would be the other way in which the understanding is moved, right? So the virtue of faith then gives him what? Inclination, right, to see these things should be believed, right? He doesn't see them as being true in themselves, right, in particular, right? Is it that sort of the influence of the object, the first truths, in some way enlighten them to see these other things insofar as they are believable? Well, the thing that should be believed, he sees them that they should be believed, right? He doesn't see them in themselves that they are true, right? It's kind of a subtle point, right? But there's a kind of what seeing, right? He's able to see the judge about the judge of the the are who are be believable. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They should be believed, right? There's sufficient reason to believe. Yeah, yeah. But that's having a faith. Yeah, yeah. So he says they should be believed. He doesn't see them as being true in themselves. They should be believed by him, right? That's kind of a subtle point that Thomas is making. Epistemology years ago, that's one of the points that the teacher made. Impressive. Evidence of credibility is what moves you to believe something. Because you see the reason to believe, either on the part of the truth that's being proposed, and the good will of the witness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember De Connick talking one time about his faith, right? You know? And why does he think he has the virtue of faith, right? Well, he sees the strength of his adherence to these things, right? But he doesn't see them in themselves. So it must be by faith that he believes, right? Rather than by sight that he ascends, right? And he was answering some question about something, I don't remember what particular was, and somebody remarked, well, you're awfully confident about that. He says, the faith makes us confident. Yeah, yeah. That's what it is. Yeah. So the light of faith is not sufficient to see these things in themselves, right? But the light of faith is enough to see that these things should be believed by you, right? And they talk about the light of glory, right, huh? It's kind of a different kind of light, huh? And the light of glory doesn't make God understandable, right, huh? But the light of glory disposes your reason to receive God as that by which you see God as he is. It's a very subtle thing, right, huh? It's not a light in the same sense, right, huh? That's what the Orthodoxy prays to as the uncreated energies of God. In other words, the light of the light they show, the light they show, they see in Christ as he was at Mount Tabor on Transfiguration. They're saying you can't see him as he, I think you can't see him as he is what they saw as uncreated energies, and I think the scholastic answer to that was that you're saying that God has parts, and that's against his, you know, his battle of simplicity, something like that. The inner excellence of Christ, right, shines forth through the body, right, huh? It's kind of an effect in the body, huh? Of the elevation of the soul, right, huh? And of course you saw this in Moses, right, huh? When he went up in the mountain, right, he came down, and of course, it's what, you know, people were... Yeah. What's the matter, you know, I'm the one among everybody. You know, everybody, if you walked in and everybody was closing like that, you'd think something's wrong with you, you know. Maybe a little self-conscious. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even in the, in the, when we see the beat of the vision, right, huh? Then there will be this glory shining through our body, right? It's a light in a different sense, right, huh? Because of the glorified body, huh? But the, but the lumen gloria, the light of glory, right, is not a light that makes something visible that was not visible before. But say, what? It prepares your soul to receive God as a form by which you see God as he is. So, I mean, St. John says in the epistle there, right, huh? We know when he appears, we shall be like him, huh? Because we shall see him as he is, huh? But how can we see God as he is? By what do we see God as he is? Well, by God himself, being joined to our mind. But our, our mind has to be raised up for the light of glory, so that God can be, but we see as that by which he is seen. There's a different kind of light, huh? It's not light that enlightens something, right? But it's disposing the soul, and the reason itself, to receive God as the form by which he will be seen. Because no created form could, what, enable you to see God as he is, himself, huh? And how does God see it? See himself? Through himself, right? So how are we going to see God as he is, right? If not to God himself, right? But then, how can our reason be joined to him, right? We have to be raised up by the light of, what, glory, right? The light of faith now, what, doesn't do that, right? But the light of faith enables you to see that these things are to be believed. It's a little bit like, you know, the necessity of what Aristotle talks about, of the moral virtues, right? For prudence, right? Unless you have your desiring powers, properly disposed, right? By moral virtue, you can't see that this is, what should be done in this case. The coward thinks he should run away. That's, that's, that's, that's, a matter of doing the circumstances, he went away. Because you're facing what? Quite possibly death, right? So unless you have the virtue of courage, you can't see that you should stay here now. Try and stop these guys that are coming up the hill, or something. I heard there was a shooting at a church, was it Tennessee or something the other day? Did you hear about this? Which one was this now? I don't know, I just saw a little blurb about it. Some church, some nut came in, started shooting people. And I guess when he came in, one of the ushers was there, and he bashed the usher in the head or something, one of those gun or whatever. And the usher ran out to his car, he had a concealed weapon in his glove, and he came in and he pointed the gun at the guy, and he said, he'd already shot two or three people killed him. And he said, you stop now or I'll shoot you dead. And he stopped. That was the end of it. So they said this guy was, he was the hero of the day. I think it was on a Sunday party? It must have been maybe last Sunday or something. Is that in the Catholic Church? I don't think so, in the Protestant church. But they said that, the guy had a license for concealed repair. He didn't have it on him. He actually ran out to the parking lot, got in his car, brought the gun in and stopped him. But he didn't shoot him, he just threatened him, and the guy got scared and he stopped. I don't know anything else about the story. So he was, he did the courageous thing. He knew this. He had to face him down. He had to face him down. He had to face him down. He had to face him down. So a man who doesn't have the virtue of courage, right, it will not seem to do his reason, right? He doesn't have the beginning for seeing what he should do, you know? If a man doesn't have the virtue of justice, he's not going to find very prudence what is the just thing to do in this case, right? He doesn't have the virtue of, what, temperance, right, huh? He's not going to see that he should stop drinking now, you know, or he should not pursue this woman, right? Not as a wife or whatever it is, you know? It's by the inclination that he has from his moral virtues that he sees what should be done in particular here and now, right? I've never seen a conic or a dian or somebody drunk, you know? I mean, they have this virtue of temperance, right? So by the virtue of, what, faith, right, huh? You don't see the truth of these things in themselves, but you see that they should be, what? Be believed, right, because of the inclination that your reason has through the virtue of, what? Faith, right? Because faith is a virtue, right? A habit, right? And every virtue gives a sort of, what? Inclination, right? I mean, with it. Okay, so that's kind of a subtle thing, right? Lumen fide facet, fide re, eaque credunto, right? That's the truth of belief. For just as man, you reply to the third objection, I'm going to get it again here. For just as through the other habits of, what? Virtues, right? A man sees that which is, what? Suitable to him. According to that, what? Habit, right, huh? So also, through the habit of faith, the mind of man is inclined to ascend to those things which, what? Fit right faith and not to others, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What is in accordance with true faith, yeah? It gives you a certain ease or inclination, right? To ascend to those things that are in accordance with the virtue of faith, right? It's to always see that, you know, a man doesn't have respect for the Blessed Virgin, right? And I wouldn't trust him at all in matters of faith, right? It just seems natural to me to think that, right, huh? Again, it's something, you know, not very well established, right? It's proposed to be believed, right? When it's inclined to reject it, right? By faith, right? It's Mary the Fourth Person of the Blessed Trinity. Not yet. Somebody said something like that, and he said, Oh, no, that's not possible, because I'm the Fourth Person of the Blessed Trinity. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.