Prima Secundae
Lecture 242: Natural Law and Human Law: Necessity and Derivation

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the article six here now to the sixth one goes for this it seems that the act the law of nature cannot be what abolished from the or wiped out from the heart of what of man because it is said in romans 2 when the gentiles right huh who do not have the law that's the written law i guess right that is in the what to grace the law of justice inscribed right in the heart well what yeah the law of justice is the law of nature therefore the law of nature can be what yeah moreover the law of grace is modifications in the law of nature but the law of grace is deleted by guilt therefore much more of the law of nature can be deleted huh there's a question number about the come up the virtues right confused virtues are more easily lost than the what you know because other ones are acquired by repeated acts they're not lost by one act against them right by the infused virtues can be lost by one act that's contrary to them right even though they're a higher virtue right and there's a certain lack of what stability there right i mean some people were arguing and i remember when i was first hearing these things you know um they were saying you know well we don't really need those acquired virtues that aristotle talked about because we've got these infused virtues right but there'd be some instability in us if if we didn't have the acquired virtues huh so we do need them huh you know they're they're as perfect as they more of that which is statute by law is induced as it were something just right huh but many things are states by men laws against the law of nature right now we've got abortion now and so on we may have homosexual marriage well it's got the supreme court size now therefore the law of nature can be abolished wiped out from the hearts of men right you notice he's the word from the heart of man right here rather than the mind of man huh it's interesting again this is what augustine says in the second book of confessions your law is written in the hearts of men right which what yeah it's able to what delete but the law written in the hearts of men is the natural law therefore the natural law cannot be what deleted huh tell the supreme court there the answer should be said that as has been said above there pertain to the natural law first certain precepts that are most what common huh which are what known to all some secondary precepts are more what particular i think is yeah i wouldn't say proper but more particular which are as the word conclusions near the what beginnings as it guards those beginnings those common beginnings the natural law in no way can be what deleted from the hearts of men in general it can be deleted in a particular operable things according as reason is impeded to apply in the common beginning to a particular thing to be done on account of what concupiscence uh Aristotle talks about that right or some other passion uh anger and so on went to see the new version there of the uh of hardy's novel there you know far from the madding crowd right i don't know do you know that story or what you know but this one man is you know double man he wants this woman for his wife right but she's kind of foolish she runs off with a soldier right and gets married to him right and then finally gets tired of her because he had a lover before and so on so he fakes his death you know he goes out swimming and he leaves his clothes ashore there and they think you know they come and tell him their husband is crowned you know so she's almost going to marry this this noble neighbor right and then the the day when he's going to clinch it the uh rascal shows up yeah of course he he shoots the soldier right huh so it's last we see him behind the bars but what is depressing you know hardy novels my brother mark tells me you know one of his friends there he's a christian brother uh he's in some english course you know and and he had to write a paper at hardy to do some you know something like that so he went i don't know how many hardy that was his exception to get very depressed you know everything goes wrong man i mean the the guy is obviously doing a foolish thing right obviously but he's angry right you know he's just you know this yeah yeah i only do it to the two movie versions i've seen of it the first one christian personal so that's why he's got a rifle he goes down like that we need more wine today yeah so you can know something and not apply it right huh the man is trying to overcome his drinking problem there right he knows he shouldn't drink right now the time comes right now he's thinking about how good it would taste you know not thinking about the fact that he's subject to this place okay so restyle talks about that in nicomagin ethics not to be a christian about those sort of things which regards the what other secondary precepts the natural law can be deleted from the hearts of men even account of bad what persuasions huh in that way that happens even in speculative matters errors happen about what necessary conclusions right now what about me deceiving the students about the whole is more than a part well you don't really deceive them into thinking that but they think they don't know what they do know which is an odd thing right but because they don't see any way out of the argument right then they begin to think maybe i don't know what i thought i knew i thought i knew that that's one thing to not know it it's another thing to think you don't know it just like it's not the same thing restyle says to know something and to think you know it so if you can think you know something you don't know right you can think you don't know what you do know right i can think an orange is a lemon someone else could think the lemon is an orange right because you could only make the mistake of thinking an orange is a lemon because it's sometimes hard to separate the two right well if it's hard to separate them you can make the opposite mistake of thinking a lemon is an orange right so if you can think the unknown is known to you you can make the mistake of thinking the known to you is what i don't know strange as it may seem right but because you could go either way if you can't distinguish them right distinction is very fundamental as you know so you don't have to call it a homophobe or something you know so you get around but it's terrible you know i mean when they first had the uh thing about you know the defensive marriage act you know and it passed the congress you know and the president was in favor of it you know and and and even the the uh you know the polls says that people you know thought purge is being a man woman and so on and now it's the reverse you know the polls say that most people think that this is should be allowed and who knows what the supreme court will come up with i mean they can become up with anything you know So, as regards to the other secondary precepts, the natural law can be deleted from the hearts of men, either on account of what? Bad persuasions, in the way that even in speculative matters, error can happen about necessary conclusions, or on account of bad customs and corrupt habits, just as before some theft or not considers. Yeah, or even vices against nature. That's very strong, right? As also the Apostle says in Romans 1, verse 24. We should check that passage out. The first effort should be said that guilt deletes the law of nature in particular, but not in the universal, except perhaps as regards the second precepts of the natural law, right? The second should be said that although grace is more efficacious than nature, nevertheless nature is more, what? Essential to man, and therefore more permanent, huh? That's what you're saying about the virtues too, right? The acquired virtues, right? Yeah, right. We wouldn't call a habit a second nature, right? I think you say that acquired habit is more a second nature than, yeah. I don't think a faith is being a second nature so much. Did you celebrate seeing Barnabas today? Barnabas, we had Barnabas yesterday. Don't ask me why they did this, but yesterday we had Barnabas, and today we have Barnabas. Yeah, does Barnabas have another name too? Son of encouragement, that's what it means, but justice? What was it? No, Barnabas, was it justice? I mean, there are even in the Gospels, I guess, a little different names, you know? I'll tell you if the name's straight there, I'll give them a list in the Matthew there, you know? I said to my wife at Mass there today, I said, we have to have ripper floats tonight. I used to have it with the kids, you know, when they were little, you know, and Apostles did, we'd have ripper floats, you know, because Rose is not that crazy about root pears. So I said, you will, you will. Oh, Joseph, his name is Joseph, who was surnamed by the Apostle Barnabas. So Barnabas is like a nickname. I know. He's a Levite. Yeah. To the theory it should be said that that argument proceeds about the second precepts of the natural law, against which some legislators make some, what? Wicked laws. Yeah, statutes, which are in Niigua. So we're involved in the United States now. I was telling me, I guess, one of our friends there, the pro-life committee there, wrote to the local congressman, you know, about this business. In fact, a lot of her wrote about it. It's just awful, you know, the way they twist things and so on. See things, don't see things. I should take a break before I begin the human law. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. then we're not to consider about human law and first about the law itself by itself secondly about its power third about its mobility but the first four things are asked first about its usefulness secondly about its origin third about its quality and fourth about the division of the same to the first and one goes forward thus it seems that it was not useful for some laws to be laid down by men for the intention of any law is that through it men become what good Aristotle and Thomas Beeson it's kind of obvious you know but if you would believe it nowadays you can't look you know moralize but men are more induced to the good of the what voluntary through admonitions I guess or enforced by laws therefore it's not necessary for laws to be laid down yeah so if you'd suggest people do something then tell me you must do this it suggests you read Aristotle you must read Aristotle every day secondly Aristotle excuse me the philosopher says wherever he is in the fifth book of the ethics huh to what the judge right men flee right has to and I mean it's to the law then it's to always to an animated just one but the animated justice is better than the inanimate one which is contained by the laws therefore it is better for the execution of justice to commit yourself to what the judgment of the judge right then what the law has what moreover every law is directive of human acts as it has been said above but since human acts are in the singular which are infinite right it's not possible for the direction of human acts what pertains to the direction of acts to be sufficiently but considered except by someone who is wise who can look into each singular matter therefore it's better that the judgment of the what even actually have to be directed by the gym of the wise then by some law laid down therefore it's not necessary for human models to be positive this is the rationale of having a Supreme Court against this is what Isidore says in the book of etymology the laws were made that by the what fear of them right human audacity right could be coerced right and that the what safe would be safe among the bad right and in the are they trying to name probies the uh okay fearing punishment their faculty of harming would be what be free but these things are most very necessary for human race therefore it's necessary to lay down human laws right answer should be said that as is clear from the things said above that in man there is naturally a certain what aptitude what for virtue but the perfection of virtue necessarily comes to man to some what discipline huh just as we see that through some what industry man is taken care of right and his necessities as in food and what clothing huh the beginning to which he has from what nature that is to say he's got reason and hands right tools not over the compliment of it the fulfillment of it as in the case of the other animals right to which the nature is sufficient what clothing and what food huh so we need farmers to practice this huh now for this discipline man did not easily find himself as being sufficient for himself because the perfection of virtue especially consists in withdrawing man from unsuitable pleasures to which especially men are prone and most of all youth concerning whom discipline is more what efficacious huh and they say everyone were saying high school adults like cement you know all mixed up and set yeah and therefore it's necessary that to discipline of the sort which one arise in virtue that men be what let out from another set apart and as regards those youthful ones who are prone to the acts of virtue from a good disposition of nature or custom or more by what divine aid there suffices the what eternal discipline right which is through munitions warnings but because some are found what stubborn I guess and prone to vices who are not able to be what easily moved by what words it's necessary that they be what held back from evil by strength by force and fear right that at least thus they were what deceased to do things badly huh and render to others life quiet right and that these finally through what this accustom would be led to this they voluntarily do those things which before they fulfilled by what fear huh and thus they become what virtuous huh we're disciplined of this sort uh forcing people by the fear of punishment it's a discipline of laws right once is necessary for the peace of men and virtue that laws be laid down because as the philosopher says in the first book of politics and if he is perfected by virtue is the best of the animals if he be separated from law and justice he's the worst of all yeah because man has the weapons of reason for fulfilling his concubiscence and his what savagery which do not have the other animals so he distinguishes then in regard to the first objection there right the first therefore it should be said that men well disposed are better led to virtue by what voluntary yeah what would be a more more concrete way for admonition yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah advice more than advice yeah what yeah but it didn't seem not necessarily in a bad sense is it though you know it's more than advice but it's urging urging it's a warning to go to the day of that sense too a little bit what you do with a little boy it's his sister what do you do your father comes home from work you know yeah my father tell me you know he's in that chair stay there and i would sit there and my mother was amazed you know yeah yeah yeah that's even what to expect from your father right i have to take my belt off you know i just whack it on the edge of the table you know and and that was enough hearing that sound of velcro in the table you're late with water returning the plant line we have to do use some force with this guy i think that's right use the belt it's saying you need law especially for those who are ill-disposed right the second should be said that as the philosophy says in the first book of rhetoric it is better that all things be ordered what by law than it be left to the judgment of what the judges and this for three reasons first because it is easier to find a few wise men who are enough for laying down what the right laws and solon right he gave his name on these they still call the law giver the solons right huh and many were required for rightly judging about what singular things secondly because those who lay down the law consider from what length of time which ought to be borne by the law right but the judgments about singular things to be done come from what cases suddenly rising now it's easier for many things considered for a man to see what is right and only from what yeah secondly or thirdly because legislators judge in universe on about future things but men reciting as judges right judge about present things to which they are affected by love or hate or somewhat and thus their judgment is what depraved uh because therefore the sole animated justice of the judge is not found in many and because it's flexible therefore it's necessary in whatever cases is possible for the law to determine what should be what judged and that fewest things be left to the judgment of what men to the third it should be said that some singular things which cannot be what comprehended by the law is necessary to commit to the judges as the philosopher says there about that which is a fact or not right and other things of this sort so why are laws necessary then as you say or are they useful for men well doesn't he get first of all the reason that there are men who are not well disposed by nature right to listen even to their parents right did you get that for your parents you know when you get out of hand you know if you're out of my hands your parents you never get them i'll tell you if i was misbehaving there in my aunt's store there you know you know toadstool spitting them you know and so on driving her crazy there's only one town one one policeman the whole town the watertown minnesota land leg and uh he comes in to get a coke and sits down there at the soda fountain my or not aunt helen says you know looking at the little boy who's been spinning these wheels and won't stop and so oh we could pull in jail for a day boy did i sober up and i behave right she was helping you to become the things voluntarily i'm in jail for a day the second one proceeds It seems that not every law laid down by men, right, is derived from the natural law. That's really true to this. For the philosopher says in the fifth book of the ethics that the, what, legal justice is that which from the beginning either differs whether it be thus or in some other way come about. Now, is he thinking about driving on the right side of the street right on the left side? But in those things which arise from natural law, it differs whether it be thus or thus to come about. Therefore, those things which are laid down by natural laws, not all are derived from the, what, law of nature, huh? More with the positive law, which means like the law laid down, right, to compare that with the definition, you know, of syllogism, right, speech in which some statements laid down, right? Kind of the firmness of it, right? Whether one follows necessarily because of those laid down, right? So if I used to compare that with the, you laid down the law, huh? You laid down the law now. You be in by 10 o'clock or whatever the law is, you know? Yeah, yeah. You laid down the law. The idea of stability there, right? That the premises of the soldiers are not laid down, huh? Not have a rest in your mind firmly. You can't proceed from them to the conclusion, right? So the positive, huh, just, is divided against the natural just, right? This is clear from Isidore, right, in the book of Etymologies. And by the philosopher in the fifth book of what? The Ethics. That's the book where Aristotle talks about what? Justice. Yeah, yeah. It's a famous thing there, the four cardinal virtues, right? Division of four, right? How do you understand it? It must be an instance. One of these is including subdivisions. Well, they usually distinguish, what, the one in reason, foresight, or prudence, against the ones which are in the desiring powers, right? One of which is in the will, one in the harassment, one in the... Where's Aristotle to take these up, right? He takes up foresight in the sixth book, which is about the virtues of reason. He takes up justice in the fifth book, right? And in the third book, he takes up courage and what? Temperance, right? Begins with courage, right? Because that's more manifestly a virtue, huh? Virtue seems to be almost what comes from that courage. All right, so. Virtue comes from virida man, huh? Courage is the virtue of man, right? Temperance is the virtue of woman. Can't teach that nowadays, I suppose. It's all that would be. Yeah, interesting. I mean, we've got exactly backwards. Everything's exactly upside down. Yeah. The fog. We've got the causes, so we've got the effects. Yeah. Yeah. But those things which are derived from the common beginnings, the natural law, as conclusions, pertain to the, what? Law of nature has been said above. Therefore, those things which are of human law do not derive from the law of nature, right? What about this law about driving 30 miles an hour? Yeah. Yeah. But it's in some way derived from the law of not taking innocent life. It's driving like a madman through. Yeah. Yeah. My brother Mark used to quote this thing from the early days of the automobile. You know, and people going to the country said, 11, 12, and 13 miles an hour. You know, anytime something that's endangered human life, like guns, right? There might be a law about shooting your gun off in the town or something, right? Yeah. Down the street shooting your gun off, you'd probably be stopped by the police, right? But in some sense, these are derived from the idea of not taking innocent life, right? The question is what the law should be, what the speed limit should be, right? That's quite a bit of the country they're coming back from Missouri. Some places they had 70 miles an hour, you know. Oh, yeah. Make a good time. Learn about motion. You can think about motion. Yeah, yeah. Moving back. I mean, the immediate conclusions of the general principle is going to be something maybe still pertaining to the natural law, right? Moreover, the law of nature is the same before all, right? As the philosopher says, huh? The fifth book of the ethics. That what is naturally just, huh? It's what everywhere has the same, what? Power, huh? If, therefore, human laws were derived from the natural law, it would follow that they were the same. Oh. Yeah. Which is clearly, what? Sometimes, I mean, it says the law says 30, sometimes it says, yeah. Go up to Paxton, and at first it says 40 miles an hour, and then all of a sudden it says 30. And the cop's waiting for you there. So you better... It's trash. Slow down from 40 to 30, or you're going to be a joke. And in England they drive on the left side, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was talking to a guy who goes over to London, you know, and he rents a car, right? And he knows he's got to drive on the left side. He said, he felt fine doing that, I mean, a little adjustment, but then when he got to the, they call it a turnaround, all your actions are just wrong, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he said, look at the city. My father, when he first went to Ireland, they rented an Austin Mini, which is about this big. Yeah. And he and my mom were in it, and he was coming out of Shannon Airport, and he had to make a left turn. He just looked the wrong way. Naturally, he just looked the wrong way, looking this way. Yeah. And he started to go out. And a big truck came in. They would have smashed him to pieces. Yeah. The last minute he saw this truck, I was running right, which I can't even remember which way they're coming in, and it's backwards, backwards for us. I saw Churchill when I was younger there, got hit in New York, you know. He looked the wrong way, you know. The core president just actually looked, you know, to the left, right? We would, I suppose. In the other direction, because that's what you do in England, right? Yeah, yeah. Right. And they didn't see it coming, and got hit. Yeah. Got to get into that. Thomas Loss Churchill. Those bad laws, they haven't been. So you're not going to maintain that that law that's driving on the left side of the street does derive the natural law. That's right. That's right. Could possibly demonstrate. That's right. If your car came from America, that's right. So they're not the same in the law here and there, right? Moreover, of those things which are derived from the natural law, some reason can be assigned, but not of all things, right, Char, what? Yeah. A reason can be rendered, right? As a jury spirit to assist. It can't give you any reason why you should drive on the left side and why you drive on the right side of America, right? Danny, why do they drive on the left? There's no answer. There's no reason for it. Why do they do that? There's no reason why they do that. There's no reason why they drive on the right side of America, right, in England. You know, the Englishman probably could have done it for me. Doesn't everybody drive on the left? Again, this is what Tullius says. This is Cicero, right? In his rhetoric, right? Things that are what? from nature and approved by custom right fear the laws religion sanctify answer should be said as Augustine says in the first book on free judgment it does not seem to be a law that is not what just once insofar as something has a justice so much does it have the virtue of what yeah power of law now in human things that is said to be just from this that it is right according to the rule reason but a reason the first rule is the law of what nature this has been clear from what's gone before once every law humanly laid down so far has the notion of law the aspect of law insofar as it is derived from the law of nature if it is in something discordant from the actual law already is not a law but a corruption of law tell that to supreme court you have not declared the law but you have corrupted the law serious for you supreme corruption but should we know should be known that from the natural law something can be derived in two ways in one way as conclusions from beginnings in another way as certain determinations of some what common things now the first way is like that in sciences in which demonstrative conclusions are produced from beginnings in the second way is similar what happens in the arts right the common forms are determined to something what special as the artist is necessary right they determine the common form of a a house to this or that what figure of a house so you got to have foundation and walls and a roof right but then it's ticketing do this in different ways right so some things are derived then from the common beginnings of the natural law by way of what conclusions just as not not do what kill as a conclusion that is derived from this that one should not do what bad to anyone to no one should some things are derived by way of what determination just as the law of nature has that the one who sins should be punished but that by such a punishment he should be punished this is a certain determination of the law of nature but he talked about this on that in democratic times punishments are more soft and right aristocratic times are more severe right because people didn't really think enough that or man was suffering something that you were suffering he's a different different race or something a different different animal or something both are found in human law right laid down human law but those which are of the first kind are contained in human law not as were as something only laid down by law right but they also have something of their strength from the what actual law but those which are the second mode from human law alone right have their figure right now so that's the thing about the right side of the the right side of the right side of the right side of the right side of the right side of the right side of the right side of the right side of the right side of the right side of the right side of the right side of the right side of the right side of the right side of the right side of the right side 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